The first scenario was good. You must prepare. Even if you have not lived in the community for a length of time, you need find out what the community holds as well. In Jay Greening presentation, he said you even prepare what you think the other side may come to the table with. It is evident that this superintendent was not prepared and out of touch with the community.
As far as the simulation, keeping track of the paperwork began to get a little tricky. As note keeper and trying to watch the board and have notes in order in case we needed to reference back was tricky at times. John and Matt did a great job representing the group. I would have liked taking one of the issues we were stuck on and moved to an interest based bargaining approach, rather than sticking with positional. We were stuck on two issues. And the point about how many union people it really impacted is not something that I considered in the process. I would of liked to have heard more about the other groups ten starting points and what they finally settled on. We were very close in the area of salary at 2% vs. 2.25 for three years.
Thank you.
Sarah
Monday, October 19, 2009
Saturday, October 17
I was not aware of the death of the superintendent in Ottawa. As I listened to Travis talk, I could tell that this had hit very close to home for him. Hang in there Travis. Building a network of support beyond your own family and friends is even more evident. Moving on to the rest of class. I like the scenario's. Picking out what the big points in the area of negotiations is an area that has gotten easier as the class has moved along. The presentations were helpful and bring out the ideas. Negotiations were a little tougher. It is good to see the progress that is being made as you move through the process. I can see how it can be a rush along with complete frustration.
Sunday, October 18, 2009
Great Class!
I thought today's class was jam-packed with interesting things to do. Of course, the other group may have had some breathing time since we took so long with our negotiations. I thought the Collective Bargaining Session for Group 1 was very beneficial. The union did an excellent job of staying on the items that really mattered to them, and I thought we did a good job as the board of not caving in to something we could not put in writing, but still did so without alienating the union. John and Matt both did great jobs as spokespersons!
The discussions and case study this morning were interesting and provided good information. The presentations also provided good information as well. Great job by everyone who presented!
I would like to thank everyone, especially Dr. Closen, for such a great classroom experience. The information in this class will be very useful for any of us who are fortunate enough to become superintendents. It was great to meet some new faces, and I wish the best for all of you!
The discussions and case study this morning were interesting and provided good information. The presentations also provided good information as well. Great job by everyone who presented!
I would like to thank everyone, especially Dr. Closen, for such a great classroom experience. The information in this class will be very useful for any of us who are fortunate enough to become superintendents. It was great to meet some new faces, and I wish the best for all of you!
October 18 - Sunday
This morning I enjoyed our case study of the midwestern town of Branville. As a new superintendent we need to be careful not to make to many changes (especially of past practice) without involving staff. That situation got this particular superintendent in trouble. It would be very difficult to bargain a new contract without the resources to do so in a strong unionized town.
Going through the presenations was a nice way to review and discuss some of the big concepts associated with collective bargaining. I enjoyed the feedback and discussion that followed. The presentation on collective bargaining and student achievement was great.
A side note to Deb: Congrats on finishing your program, passing your exam, and thanks for breakfast today.
Going through the simulations was very helpful. As we continued to go through the process it got a little easier. I can now imagine how sitting at the table for several hours, being courteous, attentive, and calm would take some work and skill. Keeping track of the cross bargaining issues and paperwork was difficult.
Going through the presenations was a nice way to review and discuss some of the big concepts associated with collective bargaining. I enjoyed the feedback and discussion that followed. The presentation on collective bargaining and student achievement was great.
A side note to Deb: Congrats on finishing your program, passing your exam, and thanks for breakfast today.
Going through the simulations was very helpful. As we continued to go through the process it got a little easier. I can now imagine how sitting at the table for several hours, being courteous, attentive, and calm would take some work and skill. Keeping track of the cross bargaining issues and paperwork was difficult.
EDU 623 October 18
The negotiations continued to be a quality learning experience from beginning to end. It was certainly important to experience the process, keep the bigger picture of the contract in mind and work towards a win/win without putting the district in the red.
I can see the collective bargaining process a good place to begin but would also like to see more districts move towards an interest based process. However, trust and relationships would have to be formed prior to moving in that direction.
Union #1 did a very good job of representing the union and held strong on issues that union members would. The organization of knowing what has been tentatively agreed upon and knowing what remains is also a critical process. I would have a fourth individual keeping track of things electronically along with a traditional note keeped. With technology, it would seem that we could keep a draft of the contract updated as we progress.
That being said, I still have strong convictions that a superintendency is not going to be for me.
I can see the collective bargaining process a good place to begin but would also like to see more districts move towards an interest based process. However, trust and relationships would have to be formed prior to moving in that direction.
Union #1 did a very good job of representing the union and held strong on issues that union members would. The organization of knowing what has been tentatively agreed upon and knowing what remains is also a critical process. I would have a fourth individual keeping track of things electronically along with a traditional note keeped. With technology, it would seem that we could keep a draft of the contract updated as we progress.
That being said, I still have strong convictions that a superintendency is not going to be for me.
Sunday
Doing the negotiation process was a very enlightening experience. Even though it was an assimilation it gave you an idea of how things could play out. I think one of the main aspects of becoming a superintendent is to get to know your community and build trust. You could be the smartest person in the world, but if your staff does not like you or trust you - I think you don't stand a chance of being successful. Treating people with respect and working together is the key in negotiations and becoming a leader anywhere.
I also appreciate the take home test, and learned a lot from the presentations.
I also appreciate the take home test, and learned a lot from the presentations.
10/18/09
The presentations today were great. I really enjoyed getting indepth information on each of the topics. The comparison information between the two states was great. The differences in the way we do school when we cross state lines is really facinating.
I really found the 10 greatest mistakes handout informative. That will be a noce thing to put in a file that can easily be accessed when bargaining comes around. It's a good simple reference to help remind me how to keep from giving away the farm.
I really enjoyed the simulation. While it likely did not totally represent the experience, it gave a taste of what we might expect.
I really found the 10 greatest mistakes handout informative. That will be a noce thing to put in a file that can easily be accessed when bargaining comes around. It's a good simple reference to help remind me how to keep from giving away the farm.
I really enjoyed the simulation. While it likely did not totally represent the experience, it gave a taste of what we might expect.
Sunday, October 18
The first case scenario brought out a couple of good points to remember. The first is to come to the table prepared, and the second is to understand that human relations directly affect labor relations. This new superintendent was not prepared for negotiations and did not do his homework. He also came into the new district and pissed off enough people that the teachers felt they needed to organize. Again, this reinforces the need to do your homework. A new superintendent needs to get to know the community and the people he is serving. Human relations is a constant process of working with your staff to build relationships and trust. This superintendent did not build relationships and trust, and this affected the district greatly.
The Ten Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining handout is also a good reference. The class presentations went well.
The Ten Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining handout is also a good reference. The class presentations went well.
EDL 623 10/18/09
EDL 623 10/18/09
The start of with the simulation was a good example of what not to do. Unless you were hired to do a shake-down, I would not come in and upset the cart in one fell swoop. You need to know the community as well as the staff and how things work. You need to have some background or help with negotiations. You want to make sure the team you have is adequate for the job. Prepare, prepare, prepare!
Again the presentations were enlightening. Interesting part was the comparison between Iowa and Illinois.
The negotiations went very well. The fine tuning was a good experience to go through. The note taking is a must in order to keep everything straight. Toward the end we were in general conversation and used verbal counters on the last item. In all the negotiation simulation was a great tool to have for future reference.
The start of with the simulation was a good example of what not to do. Unless you were hired to do a shake-down, I would not come in and upset the cart in one fell swoop. You need to know the community as well as the staff and how things work. You need to have some background or help with negotiations. You want to make sure the team you have is adequate for the job. Prepare, prepare, prepare!
Again the presentations were enlightening. Interesting part was the comparison between Iowa and Illinois.
The negotiations went very well. The fine tuning was a good experience to go through. The note taking is a must in order to keep everything straight. Toward the end we were in general conversation and used verbal counters on the last item. In all the negotiation simulation was a great tool to have for future reference.
Sunday, 10.18.09
The presentations today were very informative. I especially liked the presentations by Dan and John that presented information on Illinois and Iowa. I find it fascinating how different the two states really are. There are definite positives and negatives to each. I like the fact that a strike really has a monetary and time punishment in Iowa. I think that teachers should be docked days if they are on strike. What other profession can you not work and still get paid? (I know that they make up the days, but we won’t take that into account.) I also like how Pennsylvania has instituted the timeline of all days must be made up by June 30th. This puts a restriction on the length of the strike, if it were to occur.
Negotiating today went well. At the end, we (The Union) gave in to get the deal done. 12,000 dollars over the life of a three year contract is not worth the time! It was a great group in which the Union did all the work. Thanks Deb, Kim, Francis, Chad, and Wade. And congrats to Deb on being done (I am truly envious).
Negotiating today went well. At the end, we (The Union) gave in to get the deal done. 12,000 dollars over the life of a three year contract is not worth the time! It was a great group in which the Union did all the work. Thanks Deb, Kim, Francis, Chad, and Wade. And congrats to Deb on being done (I am truly envious).
10/18/09
Combining all of the items into a package deal was extremely helpful in the negotiation process. It was interesting the to see the bottom line and differences between 2.25, 2.25, and 2.5 versus 2.5, 2.25, and 2.25. I would have guessed it would have been substantially different. My assumption was wrong until I looked at the Excel spreadsheet. I also enjoyed working with my colleagues during this process. They were professional throughout the process.
Overall, this class has greatly improved my understanding and knowledge concerning collective bargaining. I feel much better prepared having gone through this class.
Overall, this class has greatly improved my understanding and knowledge concerning collective bargaining. I feel much better prepared having gone through this class.
10/17/09
Yesterday's simulation experience was again a challenging experience. Time, data, and personalities make for a useful, but challenging experience. I have gained considerable knowledge as a result of this experience. The most applicable aspect I have gained is the give and take that must result. Often, boths sides don't come to an agreement over a minimal amount of money.
Utilizing the our notes has eased some stress due to the large amount of content that we have covered in this class. I also appreciate using the computer to complete the test because my handwriting is poor.
Utilizing the our notes has eased some stress due to the large amount of content that we have covered in this class. I also appreciate using the computer to complete the test because my handwriting is poor.
Day 6
The 10 common mistakes in negotiations will be kept handy - in the event someone wants to borrow it from me in the future :) The case study scenarios are very helpful to discuss because they bring in experiences and situations we have to problem solve.
I am saddened by the unfortunate circumstances in Ottawa and I hope the family, as well as the community, can recover from this loss.
It is always good to hear from my colleagues on their topics of interest; and it was great to complete my last one!!!
Thanks to everyone for all the fellowship, the support, and the dialogue throughout these past 2.5 years. I wish you all fair weather and joy and you complete your journey. It has been my pleasure to know you all.
Deb
I am saddened by the unfortunate circumstances in Ottawa and I hope the family, as well as the community, can recover from this loss.
It is always good to hear from my colleagues on their topics of interest; and it was great to complete my last one!!!
Thanks to everyone for all the fellowship, the support, and the dialogue throughout these past 2.5 years. I wish you all fair weather and joy and you complete your journey. It has been my pleasure to know you all.
Deb
Oct. 18
All groups did a wonderful job giving their presentations this weekend. This course has provided me with a very good background and understanding in the collective bargaining process. I have definitely taken away from this course the importance of trust and building relationships with the union prior to negotiations. The relationships developed prior to negotiations are critical. When going through the negotiation process, it is essential to maintain these relationships and walk away with the union feeling as if they have won and with a positive feeling from the negotiation process. I just think the importance of relationships; trust and credibility are probably the biggest factors in negotiations.
I really enjoyed the simulation exercise!
623 10-18-09
623 Blog
10-18-09
The first case scenario had some good points and reminders to make sure you are prepared for negotiation.
The 10 Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining, I have seen this before but nice to have it again especially heading into negotiation.
The presentations were interesting
The final negotiation and reaching an agreement may be one of the best class projects that I have been involved with. Working with Francis and Chad on our proposals and counter proposals was a great learning experience. Then the negotiation process with Deb, Kim and Travis has heighten my knowledge of tactics and professionalism so I thank them.
10-18-09
The first case scenario had some good points and reminders to make sure you are prepared for negotiation.
The 10 Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining, I have seen this before but nice to have it again especially heading into negotiation.
The presentations were interesting
The final negotiation and reaching an agreement may be one of the best class projects that I have been involved with. Working with Francis and Chad on our proposals and counter proposals was a great learning experience. Then the negotiation process with Deb, Kim and Travis has heighten my knowledge of tactics and professionalism so I thank them.
Oct. 17
The Ottawa situation was extremely unfortunate and really makes you stop, think and reflect. It brings to the forefront the level of stress the superintendent position can bring. I’m sure there was more to the situation then just he strike, but it is a good reminder of the importance of finding a balance in life.
The simulation experience continues to be very interesting and beneficial. It become very apparent to our group that documentation and the format used during negotiation is very important. It didn’t take long for us to get confused with what offer was what. As such, we made adjustments to our documentation, and that helped both groups a great deal. I am very excited to see how the contract turns out.
Saturday, October 17, 2009
10.17.09 Blog
I knew that our initial conversation today was going to involve discussing Ottawa with all the factors involving the strike and death of John Harrison. Personally knowing John Harrison and the kind of man he was has personally caused me to think a lot about the next leadership step. He was honestly one of the last people that I would have thought would take it to that level. The stress of balancing family, work, and life in general continues to get tougher the further up the educational leadership ladder you get. I know each of us are different, but the recent events have really caused me to complete a self evaluation when looking at the future. I am still in the process of that self evaluation and honestly, Ottawa not settling yet is not making it any easier!
After the initial discussions, the rest of the day went by quickly with a lot of information and experiences learned. Today was exciting with a lot of movement in negotiations. We were hoping to finish negotiations today, but the tornado sirens went off and we were forced to go home. I guess there is no place like home!
I learned several lessons in today’s simulations with the largest one being combining proposals and counters into one, easy to read document. It got interesting when we were trying to discuss two different pieces of paper and all stay on the same page. Also, sharing the financial data is key to staying on the same page.
We’ll see what tomorrow brings!
After the initial discussions, the rest of the day went by quickly with a lot of information and experiences learned. Today was exciting with a lot of movement in negotiations. We were hoping to finish negotiations today, but the tornado sirens went off and we were forced to go home. I guess there is no place like home!
I learned several lessons in today’s simulations with the largest one being combining proposals and counters into one, easy to read document. It got interesting when we were trying to discuss two different pieces of paper and all stay on the same page. Also, sharing the financial data is key to staying on the same page.
We’ll see what tomorrow brings!
October 17
Today's simulation exercise was again challenging. It is not an easy task to create doubt in your opponent and change their perception on a particular issue. I believe we are close to a final agreement but then we still have some serious hurdles to get over. The key will be to get something all of us can live with.
The time issue was frustrating today. It seemed to take so long waiting for a counter proposal to act on. I have never been involved with negotiations before and this is very interesting. Keeping all the papers, notes, and proposals separate and keeping track of what was said, agreed on, and put aside is a job all its own.
I was pleased to learn that the test will be open note. Also, a little relieved as cramming for an exam has never been my thing.
The time issue was frustrating today. It seemed to take so long waiting for a counter proposal to act on. I have never been involved with negotiations before and this is very interesting. Keeping all the papers, notes, and proposals separate and keeping track of what was said, agreed on, and put aside is a job all its own.
I was pleased to learn that the test will be open note. Also, a little relieved as cramming for an exam has never been my thing.
EDL 623 10/17/09
10/17/09 EDL 623
It was quite interesting today. To start off talking about the Ottawa situation makes you stop and think. Maybe to keep in mind how far are you willing to go and can you recognize when enough is enough before it is too late. I worry about those that must go on and how this is going to affect their lives and career.
It seemed to take an awfully long time to put the counter 1 & 2 together from both sides. Both sides worked well together in keeping the items straight. Union 2 did the best job on the last combination. Thanks!!:)
Tomorrow will bring more challenges with the union. I have faith in you Chad. The experience gained in the simulation will be beneficial. It is a good example as to why preparation is good. The manipulation of data on the spreadsheets is handy to know.
There was a lot of good information presented today. I would like to end up with a copy of each for future references.
The future insurance possibilities could make a difference for our school as to being in the red or afloat.
It was quite interesting today. To start off talking about the Ottawa situation makes you stop and think. Maybe to keep in mind how far are you willing to go and can you recognize when enough is enough before it is too late. I worry about those that must go on and how this is going to affect their lives and career.
It seemed to take an awfully long time to put the counter 1 & 2 together from both sides. Both sides worked well together in keeping the items straight. Union 2 did the best job on the last combination. Thanks!!:)
Tomorrow will bring more challenges with the union. I have faith in you Chad. The experience gained in the simulation will be beneficial. It is a good example as to why preparation is good. The manipulation of data on the spreadsheets is handy to know.
There was a lot of good information presented today. I would like to end up with a copy of each for future references.
The future insurance possibilities could make a difference for our school as to being in the red or afloat.
EDU623 Oct. 17, 2009
The Ottawa situation is unfortunate. I came across numerous pieces of information relating to Ottawa as I searched for historical articles relating to the history of Illinois school strikes. From what I have read, Ottawa teachers seem to be greedy and have accused the board of not bargaining in good faith. It is just another example of how today, strikes hurt families, communities and learning. It was a timely discussion.
The simulation activity continues to be a challenge. The union and board seem to be a little more relaxed in their approach this weekend. Hopefully our discussions will continue towards a win-win solution for all. The process has been rewarding, it also leads me farther from the notion of seeking a superintendency at some point in the future.
The presentations were interesting. It is always interesting to broaden the scope of learning through student presentations. I especially liked Matt's and Derek's research that related to class size and its relationship to student achievement.
Dr. Closen, thanks for the feedback on our papers. I have some APA adjustments ahead of me.
The simulation activity continues to be a challenge. The union and board seem to be a little more relaxed in their approach this weekend. Hopefully our discussions will continue towards a win-win solution for all. The process has been rewarding, it also leads me farther from the notion of seeking a superintendency at some point in the future.
The presentations were interesting. It is always interesting to broaden the scope of learning through student presentations. I especially liked Matt's and Derek's research that related to class size and its relationship to student achievement.
Dr. Closen, thanks for the feedback on our papers. I have some APA adjustments ahead of me.
October 17
Going through the process is very beneficial. I have never sat on a negotiating team and can't say that I would find it enjoyable. However you can certainly see how one's emotions could overcome logic when you are dealing with something you are truly passionate about such as salary and working conditions. In any situation when there are "sides" to the story - you have to take a step back and try and see where the other side is coming from. It is hard to be patient through the process,and I can't imagine sitting in on a negotiating team for hours. It was so sad to hear about the superintendent. Being a principal is sometimes a very lonely job, and you were right about the support getting less as you go on up through the ranks. Even principals in a district are often competitive and maybe some of your best allies are those who are outside of your own district. It is important to find support in any job that you do. Teachers have the support of each other and the friendships they form in the district. I am not always sure that principals or superintendents have that.
Another Busy Day!
This class goes by so quickly each day! After a week of VERY late nights as Activities Director, I wasn't sure if I would be able to stay awake through the morning session. However, the discussion at the beginning was very interesting, as usual, and my eyes stayed wide open. It is always an informative session, especially for an Iowan, as I learn a lot about how things operate on the Illinois side of the river.
The PowerPoint Presentations were also informative. Great job by everyone!
The most valuable part of the day, as usual, was the simulation activity. I learn a lot every time we practice the process, yet there is so much more to still learn. I thought both sides in our group really did a great job of presenting their issues. It should be another informative day tomorrow.
The PowerPoint Presentations were also informative. Great job by everyone!
The most valuable part of the day, as usual, was the simulation activity. I learn a lot every time we practice the process, yet there is so much more to still learn. I thought both sides in our group really did a great job of presenting their issues. It should be another informative day tomorrow.
Oct. 17 - 7:10 P.M.
Today's class was enjoyable in several areas. It was interesting to hear and discuss more about the Ottawa strike. I think the teachers there will have a difficult time gaining public support given the fact that they are high paid and don't pay for insurance. I can't imagine what Mr. Harrison was going through and the amount of stress one endures when a district goes on strike.
As we got into the simulation of bargainng I gained some perspective how difficult and time consuming it could be. It was difficult to remain that patient today and this was for a class with much shorter time constraints. Sitting at the table for several hours at a time, being courteous, attentive, and productive would be difficult.
It was good to receive clarification on some of the APA format mistakes. Keeping track of all of the little .,:"()quotes, and citations gets complicated.
I was also glad to hear that the final will be an open note / take home format if necessary.
As we got into the simulation of bargainng I gained some perspective how difficult and time consuming it could be. It was difficult to remain that patient today and this was for a class with much shorter time constraints. Sitting at the table for several hours at a time, being courteous, attentive, and productive would be difficult.
It was good to receive clarification on some of the APA format mistakes. Keeping track of all of the little .,:"()quotes, and citations gets complicated.
I was also glad to hear that the final will be an open note / take home format if necessary.
Bargaining 10/17/09
The negotiations today were fun today. We tentatively agreed on most things and got right down to the end when a tornado ripped through WIU and everything was stopped until tomorrow!
All kidding aside, the notes were a bit hard to follow and I can see why the scribe has a very important part in the entire scheme of things. We got confused with proposals and counter proposals and the number system, etc. It was good when the documents were finally combined and we were all reading from the same page.
It is good we have some very financially savvy folks on the Union side, as well as proficient in Excel spreadsheets. This talent is important when we are looking at the financial impact for the Union as well as the Board.
This has been a fun experience. I honestly can say I don't really want to be a superintendent!
Deb
All kidding aside, the notes were a bit hard to follow and I can see why the scribe has a very important part in the entire scheme of things. We got confused with proposals and counter proposals and the number system, etc. It was good when the documents were finally combined and we were all reading from the same page.
It is good we have some very financially savvy folks on the Union side, as well as proficient in Excel spreadsheets. This talent is important when we are looking at the financial impact for the Union as well as the Board.
This has been a fun experience. I honestly can say I don't really want to be a superintendent!
Deb
October 17, 2009
Class discussion went well this morning. Ottawa certainly provided an interesting conversation. The negotiations simulation is starting to take shape, and the two sides are closer than I originally thought. It has offered good practice, and for the most part, has followed the general process we recently went through in our district last year. The class presentations are going well. It is clear that everyone has done their homework.
623 10-17-09
Discussion on the Ottawa strike was very interesting and sad at the same time. Not knowing the whole story on the superintendent but to think of the stress level he was under to take his own life. The teachers and community will have to deal with the healing and all I do is wonder why.
The simulation activity has been beneficial to me and has been a very useful exercise. I think the information will be valuable as my district heads into negotiation this year.
The simulation activity has been beneficial to me and has been a very useful exercise. I think the information will be valuable as my district heads into negotiation this year.
Thursday, October 8, 2009
Sunday day 4
Good evening! The simulation activity has been beneficial to me. I find I can compare the experience I had observing the Freeport negotiations to what we are trying to accomplish in this role playing activity. It really is much harder than it looks! I also find it conflicting because I want to do what is best for the school district as the superintendent; yet I know as a principal the contract finally agreed upon will benefit the principals as well! I might say I am having a bit of difficulty switching hats!
I also know that as a principal I am damning the contract many times because of its constraints on people's work habits. Those that don't really want to put forth all the effort necessary these days to teach, hide behind the cloak of the contract. Those teachers that want to go above and beyond to provide what is necessary for students are saddled with peer pressure to follow the rest of the pack.
It is definitely time to begin to explore other bargaining options and methods to hold teachers more accountable for student learning and provide less room to hide behind the contract walls.
I also know that as a principal I am damning the contract many times because of its constraints on people's work habits. Those that don't really want to put forth all the effort necessary these days to teach, hide behind the cloak of the contract. Those teachers that want to go above and beyond to provide what is necessary for students are saddled with peer pressure to follow the rest of the pack.
It is definitely time to begin to explore other bargaining options and methods to hold teachers more accountable for student learning and provide less room to hide behind the contract walls.
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