The first scenario was good. You must prepare. Even if you have not lived in the community for a length of time, you need find out what the community holds as well. In Jay Greening presentation, he said you even prepare what you think the other side may come to the table with. It is evident that this superintendent was not prepared and out of touch with the community.
As far as the simulation, keeping track of the paperwork began to get a little tricky. As note keeper and trying to watch the board and have notes in order in case we needed to reference back was tricky at times. John and Matt did a great job representing the group. I would have liked taking one of the issues we were stuck on and moved to an interest based bargaining approach, rather than sticking with positional. We were stuck on two issues. And the point about how many union people it really impacted is not something that I considered in the process. I would of liked to have heard more about the other groups ten starting points and what they finally settled on. We were very close in the area of salary at 2% vs. 2.25 for three years.
Thank you.
Sarah
Monday, October 19, 2009
Saturday, October 17
I was not aware of the death of the superintendent in Ottawa. As I listened to Travis talk, I could tell that this had hit very close to home for him. Hang in there Travis. Building a network of support beyond your own family and friends is even more evident. Moving on to the rest of class. I like the scenario's. Picking out what the big points in the area of negotiations is an area that has gotten easier as the class has moved along. The presentations were helpful and bring out the ideas. Negotiations were a little tougher. It is good to see the progress that is being made as you move through the process. I can see how it can be a rush along with complete frustration.
Sunday, October 18, 2009
Great Class!
I thought today's class was jam-packed with interesting things to do. Of course, the other group may have had some breathing time since we took so long with our negotiations. I thought the Collective Bargaining Session for Group 1 was very beneficial. The union did an excellent job of staying on the items that really mattered to them, and I thought we did a good job as the board of not caving in to something we could not put in writing, but still did so without alienating the union. John and Matt both did great jobs as spokespersons!
The discussions and case study this morning were interesting and provided good information. The presentations also provided good information as well. Great job by everyone who presented!
I would like to thank everyone, especially Dr. Closen, for such a great classroom experience. The information in this class will be very useful for any of us who are fortunate enough to become superintendents. It was great to meet some new faces, and I wish the best for all of you!
The discussions and case study this morning were interesting and provided good information. The presentations also provided good information as well. Great job by everyone who presented!
I would like to thank everyone, especially Dr. Closen, for such a great classroom experience. The information in this class will be very useful for any of us who are fortunate enough to become superintendents. It was great to meet some new faces, and I wish the best for all of you!
October 18 - Sunday
This morning I enjoyed our case study of the midwestern town of Branville. As a new superintendent we need to be careful not to make to many changes (especially of past practice) without involving staff. That situation got this particular superintendent in trouble. It would be very difficult to bargain a new contract without the resources to do so in a strong unionized town.
Going through the presenations was a nice way to review and discuss some of the big concepts associated with collective bargaining. I enjoyed the feedback and discussion that followed. The presentation on collective bargaining and student achievement was great.
A side note to Deb: Congrats on finishing your program, passing your exam, and thanks for breakfast today.
Going through the simulations was very helpful. As we continued to go through the process it got a little easier. I can now imagine how sitting at the table for several hours, being courteous, attentive, and calm would take some work and skill. Keeping track of the cross bargaining issues and paperwork was difficult.
Going through the presenations was a nice way to review and discuss some of the big concepts associated with collective bargaining. I enjoyed the feedback and discussion that followed. The presentation on collective bargaining and student achievement was great.
A side note to Deb: Congrats on finishing your program, passing your exam, and thanks for breakfast today.
Going through the simulations was very helpful. As we continued to go through the process it got a little easier. I can now imagine how sitting at the table for several hours, being courteous, attentive, and calm would take some work and skill. Keeping track of the cross bargaining issues and paperwork was difficult.
EDU 623 October 18
The negotiations continued to be a quality learning experience from beginning to end. It was certainly important to experience the process, keep the bigger picture of the contract in mind and work towards a win/win without putting the district in the red.
I can see the collective bargaining process a good place to begin but would also like to see more districts move towards an interest based process. However, trust and relationships would have to be formed prior to moving in that direction.
Union #1 did a very good job of representing the union and held strong on issues that union members would. The organization of knowing what has been tentatively agreed upon and knowing what remains is also a critical process. I would have a fourth individual keeping track of things electronically along with a traditional note keeped. With technology, it would seem that we could keep a draft of the contract updated as we progress.
That being said, I still have strong convictions that a superintendency is not going to be for me.
I can see the collective bargaining process a good place to begin but would also like to see more districts move towards an interest based process. However, trust and relationships would have to be formed prior to moving in that direction.
Union #1 did a very good job of representing the union and held strong on issues that union members would. The organization of knowing what has been tentatively agreed upon and knowing what remains is also a critical process. I would have a fourth individual keeping track of things electronically along with a traditional note keeped. With technology, it would seem that we could keep a draft of the contract updated as we progress.
That being said, I still have strong convictions that a superintendency is not going to be for me.
Sunday
Doing the negotiation process was a very enlightening experience. Even though it was an assimilation it gave you an idea of how things could play out. I think one of the main aspects of becoming a superintendent is to get to know your community and build trust. You could be the smartest person in the world, but if your staff does not like you or trust you - I think you don't stand a chance of being successful. Treating people with respect and working together is the key in negotiations and becoming a leader anywhere.
I also appreciate the take home test, and learned a lot from the presentations.
I also appreciate the take home test, and learned a lot from the presentations.
10/18/09
The presentations today were great. I really enjoyed getting indepth information on each of the topics. The comparison information between the two states was great. The differences in the way we do school when we cross state lines is really facinating.
I really found the 10 greatest mistakes handout informative. That will be a noce thing to put in a file that can easily be accessed when bargaining comes around. It's a good simple reference to help remind me how to keep from giving away the farm.
I really enjoyed the simulation. While it likely did not totally represent the experience, it gave a taste of what we might expect.
I really found the 10 greatest mistakes handout informative. That will be a noce thing to put in a file that can easily be accessed when bargaining comes around. It's a good simple reference to help remind me how to keep from giving away the farm.
I really enjoyed the simulation. While it likely did not totally represent the experience, it gave a taste of what we might expect.
Sunday, October 18
The first case scenario brought out a couple of good points to remember. The first is to come to the table prepared, and the second is to understand that human relations directly affect labor relations. This new superintendent was not prepared for negotiations and did not do his homework. He also came into the new district and pissed off enough people that the teachers felt they needed to organize. Again, this reinforces the need to do your homework. A new superintendent needs to get to know the community and the people he is serving. Human relations is a constant process of working with your staff to build relationships and trust. This superintendent did not build relationships and trust, and this affected the district greatly.
The Ten Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining handout is also a good reference. The class presentations went well.
The Ten Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining handout is also a good reference. The class presentations went well.
EDL 623 10/18/09
EDL 623 10/18/09
The start of with the simulation was a good example of what not to do. Unless you were hired to do a shake-down, I would not come in and upset the cart in one fell swoop. You need to know the community as well as the staff and how things work. You need to have some background or help with negotiations. You want to make sure the team you have is adequate for the job. Prepare, prepare, prepare!
Again the presentations were enlightening. Interesting part was the comparison between Iowa and Illinois.
The negotiations went very well. The fine tuning was a good experience to go through. The note taking is a must in order to keep everything straight. Toward the end we were in general conversation and used verbal counters on the last item. In all the negotiation simulation was a great tool to have for future reference.
The start of with the simulation was a good example of what not to do. Unless you were hired to do a shake-down, I would not come in and upset the cart in one fell swoop. You need to know the community as well as the staff and how things work. You need to have some background or help with negotiations. You want to make sure the team you have is adequate for the job. Prepare, prepare, prepare!
Again the presentations were enlightening. Interesting part was the comparison between Iowa and Illinois.
The negotiations went very well. The fine tuning was a good experience to go through. The note taking is a must in order to keep everything straight. Toward the end we were in general conversation and used verbal counters on the last item. In all the negotiation simulation was a great tool to have for future reference.
Sunday, 10.18.09
The presentations today were very informative. I especially liked the presentations by Dan and John that presented information on Illinois and Iowa. I find it fascinating how different the two states really are. There are definite positives and negatives to each. I like the fact that a strike really has a monetary and time punishment in Iowa. I think that teachers should be docked days if they are on strike. What other profession can you not work and still get paid? (I know that they make up the days, but we won’t take that into account.) I also like how Pennsylvania has instituted the timeline of all days must be made up by June 30th. This puts a restriction on the length of the strike, if it were to occur.
Negotiating today went well. At the end, we (The Union) gave in to get the deal done. 12,000 dollars over the life of a three year contract is not worth the time! It was a great group in which the Union did all the work. Thanks Deb, Kim, Francis, Chad, and Wade. And congrats to Deb on being done (I am truly envious).
Negotiating today went well. At the end, we (The Union) gave in to get the deal done. 12,000 dollars over the life of a three year contract is not worth the time! It was a great group in which the Union did all the work. Thanks Deb, Kim, Francis, Chad, and Wade. And congrats to Deb on being done (I am truly envious).
10/18/09
Combining all of the items into a package deal was extremely helpful in the negotiation process. It was interesting the to see the bottom line and differences between 2.25, 2.25, and 2.5 versus 2.5, 2.25, and 2.25. I would have guessed it would have been substantially different. My assumption was wrong until I looked at the Excel spreadsheet. I also enjoyed working with my colleagues during this process. They were professional throughout the process.
Overall, this class has greatly improved my understanding and knowledge concerning collective bargaining. I feel much better prepared having gone through this class.
Overall, this class has greatly improved my understanding and knowledge concerning collective bargaining. I feel much better prepared having gone through this class.
10/17/09
Yesterday's simulation experience was again a challenging experience. Time, data, and personalities make for a useful, but challenging experience. I have gained considerable knowledge as a result of this experience. The most applicable aspect I have gained is the give and take that must result. Often, boths sides don't come to an agreement over a minimal amount of money.
Utilizing the our notes has eased some stress due to the large amount of content that we have covered in this class. I also appreciate using the computer to complete the test because my handwriting is poor.
Utilizing the our notes has eased some stress due to the large amount of content that we have covered in this class. I also appreciate using the computer to complete the test because my handwriting is poor.
Day 6
The 10 common mistakes in negotiations will be kept handy - in the event someone wants to borrow it from me in the future :) The case study scenarios are very helpful to discuss because they bring in experiences and situations we have to problem solve.
I am saddened by the unfortunate circumstances in Ottawa and I hope the family, as well as the community, can recover from this loss.
It is always good to hear from my colleagues on their topics of interest; and it was great to complete my last one!!!
Thanks to everyone for all the fellowship, the support, and the dialogue throughout these past 2.5 years. I wish you all fair weather and joy and you complete your journey. It has been my pleasure to know you all.
Deb
I am saddened by the unfortunate circumstances in Ottawa and I hope the family, as well as the community, can recover from this loss.
It is always good to hear from my colleagues on their topics of interest; and it was great to complete my last one!!!
Thanks to everyone for all the fellowship, the support, and the dialogue throughout these past 2.5 years. I wish you all fair weather and joy and you complete your journey. It has been my pleasure to know you all.
Deb
Oct. 18
All groups did a wonderful job giving their presentations this weekend. This course has provided me with a very good background and understanding in the collective bargaining process. I have definitely taken away from this course the importance of trust and building relationships with the union prior to negotiations. The relationships developed prior to negotiations are critical. When going through the negotiation process, it is essential to maintain these relationships and walk away with the union feeling as if they have won and with a positive feeling from the negotiation process. I just think the importance of relationships; trust and credibility are probably the biggest factors in negotiations.
I really enjoyed the simulation exercise!
623 10-18-09
623 Blog
10-18-09
The first case scenario had some good points and reminders to make sure you are prepared for negotiation.
The 10 Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining, I have seen this before but nice to have it again especially heading into negotiation.
The presentations were interesting
The final negotiation and reaching an agreement may be one of the best class projects that I have been involved with. Working with Francis and Chad on our proposals and counter proposals was a great learning experience. Then the negotiation process with Deb, Kim and Travis has heighten my knowledge of tactics and professionalism so I thank them.
10-18-09
The first case scenario had some good points and reminders to make sure you are prepared for negotiation.
The 10 Most Common Mistakes in Collective Bargaining, I have seen this before but nice to have it again especially heading into negotiation.
The presentations were interesting
The final negotiation and reaching an agreement may be one of the best class projects that I have been involved with. Working with Francis and Chad on our proposals and counter proposals was a great learning experience. Then the negotiation process with Deb, Kim and Travis has heighten my knowledge of tactics and professionalism so I thank them.
Oct. 17
The Ottawa situation was extremely unfortunate and really makes you stop, think and reflect. It brings to the forefront the level of stress the superintendent position can bring. I’m sure there was more to the situation then just he strike, but it is a good reminder of the importance of finding a balance in life.
The simulation experience continues to be very interesting and beneficial. It become very apparent to our group that documentation and the format used during negotiation is very important. It didn’t take long for us to get confused with what offer was what. As such, we made adjustments to our documentation, and that helped both groups a great deal. I am very excited to see how the contract turns out.
Saturday, October 17, 2009
10.17.09 Blog
I knew that our initial conversation today was going to involve discussing Ottawa with all the factors involving the strike and death of John Harrison. Personally knowing John Harrison and the kind of man he was has personally caused me to think a lot about the next leadership step. He was honestly one of the last people that I would have thought would take it to that level. The stress of balancing family, work, and life in general continues to get tougher the further up the educational leadership ladder you get. I know each of us are different, but the recent events have really caused me to complete a self evaluation when looking at the future. I am still in the process of that self evaluation and honestly, Ottawa not settling yet is not making it any easier!
After the initial discussions, the rest of the day went by quickly with a lot of information and experiences learned. Today was exciting with a lot of movement in negotiations. We were hoping to finish negotiations today, but the tornado sirens went off and we were forced to go home. I guess there is no place like home!
I learned several lessons in today’s simulations with the largest one being combining proposals and counters into one, easy to read document. It got interesting when we were trying to discuss two different pieces of paper and all stay on the same page. Also, sharing the financial data is key to staying on the same page.
We’ll see what tomorrow brings!
After the initial discussions, the rest of the day went by quickly with a lot of information and experiences learned. Today was exciting with a lot of movement in negotiations. We were hoping to finish negotiations today, but the tornado sirens went off and we were forced to go home. I guess there is no place like home!
I learned several lessons in today’s simulations with the largest one being combining proposals and counters into one, easy to read document. It got interesting when we were trying to discuss two different pieces of paper and all stay on the same page. Also, sharing the financial data is key to staying on the same page.
We’ll see what tomorrow brings!
October 17
Today's simulation exercise was again challenging. It is not an easy task to create doubt in your opponent and change their perception on a particular issue. I believe we are close to a final agreement but then we still have some serious hurdles to get over. The key will be to get something all of us can live with.
The time issue was frustrating today. It seemed to take so long waiting for a counter proposal to act on. I have never been involved with negotiations before and this is very interesting. Keeping all the papers, notes, and proposals separate and keeping track of what was said, agreed on, and put aside is a job all its own.
I was pleased to learn that the test will be open note. Also, a little relieved as cramming for an exam has never been my thing.
The time issue was frustrating today. It seemed to take so long waiting for a counter proposal to act on. I have never been involved with negotiations before and this is very interesting. Keeping all the papers, notes, and proposals separate and keeping track of what was said, agreed on, and put aside is a job all its own.
I was pleased to learn that the test will be open note. Also, a little relieved as cramming for an exam has never been my thing.
EDL 623 10/17/09
10/17/09 EDL 623
It was quite interesting today. To start off talking about the Ottawa situation makes you stop and think. Maybe to keep in mind how far are you willing to go and can you recognize when enough is enough before it is too late. I worry about those that must go on and how this is going to affect their lives and career.
It seemed to take an awfully long time to put the counter 1 & 2 together from both sides. Both sides worked well together in keeping the items straight. Union 2 did the best job on the last combination. Thanks!!:)
Tomorrow will bring more challenges with the union. I have faith in you Chad. The experience gained in the simulation will be beneficial. It is a good example as to why preparation is good. The manipulation of data on the spreadsheets is handy to know.
There was a lot of good information presented today. I would like to end up with a copy of each for future references.
The future insurance possibilities could make a difference for our school as to being in the red or afloat.
It was quite interesting today. To start off talking about the Ottawa situation makes you stop and think. Maybe to keep in mind how far are you willing to go and can you recognize when enough is enough before it is too late. I worry about those that must go on and how this is going to affect their lives and career.
It seemed to take an awfully long time to put the counter 1 & 2 together from both sides. Both sides worked well together in keeping the items straight. Union 2 did the best job on the last combination. Thanks!!:)
Tomorrow will bring more challenges with the union. I have faith in you Chad. The experience gained in the simulation will be beneficial. It is a good example as to why preparation is good. The manipulation of data on the spreadsheets is handy to know.
There was a lot of good information presented today. I would like to end up with a copy of each for future references.
The future insurance possibilities could make a difference for our school as to being in the red or afloat.
EDU623 Oct. 17, 2009
The Ottawa situation is unfortunate. I came across numerous pieces of information relating to Ottawa as I searched for historical articles relating to the history of Illinois school strikes. From what I have read, Ottawa teachers seem to be greedy and have accused the board of not bargaining in good faith. It is just another example of how today, strikes hurt families, communities and learning. It was a timely discussion.
The simulation activity continues to be a challenge. The union and board seem to be a little more relaxed in their approach this weekend. Hopefully our discussions will continue towards a win-win solution for all. The process has been rewarding, it also leads me farther from the notion of seeking a superintendency at some point in the future.
The presentations were interesting. It is always interesting to broaden the scope of learning through student presentations. I especially liked Matt's and Derek's research that related to class size and its relationship to student achievement.
Dr. Closen, thanks for the feedback on our papers. I have some APA adjustments ahead of me.
The simulation activity continues to be a challenge. The union and board seem to be a little more relaxed in their approach this weekend. Hopefully our discussions will continue towards a win-win solution for all. The process has been rewarding, it also leads me farther from the notion of seeking a superintendency at some point in the future.
The presentations were interesting. It is always interesting to broaden the scope of learning through student presentations. I especially liked Matt's and Derek's research that related to class size and its relationship to student achievement.
Dr. Closen, thanks for the feedback on our papers. I have some APA adjustments ahead of me.
October 17
Going through the process is very beneficial. I have never sat on a negotiating team and can't say that I would find it enjoyable. However you can certainly see how one's emotions could overcome logic when you are dealing with something you are truly passionate about such as salary and working conditions. In any situation when there are "sides" to the story - you have to take a step back and try and see where the other side is coming from. It is hard to be patient through the process,and I can't imagine sitting in on a negotiating team for hours. It was so sad to hear about the superintendent. Being a principal is sometimes a very lonely job, and you were right about the support getting less as you go on up through the ranks. Even principals in a district are often competitive and maybe some of your best allies are those who are outside of your own district. It is important to find support in any job that you do. Teachers have the support of each other and the friendships they form in the district. I am not always sure that principals or superintendents have that.
Another Busy Day!
This class goes by so quickly each day! After a week of VERY late nights as Activities Director, I wasn't sure if I would be able to stay awake through the morning session. However, the discussion at the beginning was very interesting, as usual, and my eyes stayed wide open. It is always an informative session, especially for an Iowan, as I learn a lot about how things operate on the Illinois side of the river.
The PowerPoint Presentations were also informative. Great job by everyone!
The most valuable part of the day, as usual, was the simulation activity. I learn a lot every time we practice the process, yet there is so much more to still learn. I thought both sides in our group really did a great job of presenting their issues. It should be another informative day tomorrow.
The PowerPoint Presentations were also informative. Great job by everyone!
The most valuable part of the day, as usual, was the simulation activity. I learn a lot every time we practice the process, yet there is so much more to still learn. I thought both sides in our group really did a great job of presenting their issues. It should be another informative day tomorrow.
Oct. 17 - 7:10 P.M.
Today's class was enjoyable in several areas. It was interesting to hear and discuss more about the Ottawa strike. I think the teachers there will have a difficult time gaining public support given the fact that they are high paid and don't pay for insurance. I can't imagine what Mr. Harrison was going through and the amount of stress one endures when a district goes on strike.
As we got into the simulation of bargainng I gained some perspective how difficult and time consuming it could be. It was difficult to remain that patient today and this was for a class with much shorter time constraints. Sitting at the table for several hours at a time, being courteous, attentive, and productive would be difficult.
It was good to receive clarification on some of the APA format mistakes. Keeping track of all of the little .,:"()quotes, and citations gets complicated.
I was also glad to hear that the final will be an open note / take home format if necessary.
As we got into the simulation of bargainng I gained some perspective how difficult and time consuming it could be. It was difficult to remain that patient today and this was for a class with much shorter time constraints. Sitting at the table for several hours at a time, being courteous, attentive, and productive would be difficult.
It was good to receive clarification on some of the APA format mistakes. Keeping track of all of the little .,:"()quotes, and citations gets complicated.
I was also glad to hear that the final will be an open note / take home format if necessary.
Bargaining 10/17/09
The negotiations today were fun today. We tentatively agreed on most things and got right down to the end when a tornado ripped through WIU and everything was stopped until tomorrow!
All kidding aside, the notes were a bit hard to follow and I can see why the scribe has a very important part in the entire scheme of things. We got confused with proposals and counter proposals and the number system, etc. It was good when the documents were finally combined and we were all reading from the same page.
It is good we have some very financially savvy folks on the Union side, as well as proficient in Excel spreadsheets. This talent is important when we are looking at the financial impact for the Union as well as the Board.
This has been a fun experience. I honestly can say I don't really want to be a superintendent!
Deb
All kidding aside, the notes were a bit hard to follow and I can see why the scribe has a very important part in the entire scheme of things. We got confused with proposals and counter proposals and the number system, etc. It was good when the documents were finally combined and we were all reading from the same page.
It is good we have some very financially savvy folks on the Union side, as well as proficient in Excel spreadsheets. This talent is important when we are looking at the financial impact for the Union as well as the Board.
This has been a fun experience. I honestly can say I don't really want to be a superintendent!
Deb
October 17, 2009
Class discussion went well this morning. Ottawa certainly provided an interesting conversation. The negotiations simulation is starting to take shape, and the two sides are closer than I originally thought. It has offered good practice, and for the most part, has followed the general process we recently went through in our district last year. The class presentations are going well. It is clear that everyone has done their homework.
623 10-17-09
Discussion on the Ottawa strike was very interesting and sad at the same time. Not knowing the whole story on the superintendent but to think of the stress level he was under to take his own life. The teachers and community will have to deal with the healing and all I do is wonder why.
The simulation activity has been beneficial to me and has been a very useful exercise. I think the information will be valuable as my district heads into negotiation this year.
The simulation activity has been beneficial to me and has been a very useful exercise. I think the information will be valuable as my district heads into negotiation this year.
Thursday, October 8, 2009
Sunday day 4
Good evening! The simulation activity has been beneficial to me. I find I can compare the experience I had observing the Freeport negotiations to what we are trying to accomplish in this role playing activity. It really is much harder than it looks! I also find it conflicting because I want to do what is best for the school district as the superintendent; yet I know as a principal the contract finally agreed upon will benefit the principals as well! I might say I am having a bit of difficulty switching hats!
I also know that as a principal I am damning the contract many times because of its constraints on people's work habits. Those that don't really want to put forth all the effort necessary these days to teach, hide behind the cloak of the contract. Those teachers that want to go above and beyond to provide what is necessary for students are saddled with peer pressure to follow the rest of the pack.
It is definitely time to begin to explore other bargaining options and methods to hold teachers more accountable for student learning and provide less room to hide behind the contract walls.
I also know that as a principal I am damning the contract many times because of its constraints on people's work habits. Those that don't really want to put forth all the effort necessary these days to teach, hide behind the cloak of the contract. Those teachers that want to go above and beyond to provide what is necessary for students are saddled with peer pressure to follow the rest of the pack.
It is definitely time to begin to explore other bargaining options and methods to hold teachers more accountable for student learning and provide less room to hide behind the contract walls.
Monday, September 21, 2009
September 13
Even with a good idea of where you are coming from and where you are going, negotiations is tough. You must have your game plan completely prepared with little question about what you want to accomplish. The difficult thing about this simulation is that we are assuming a completely foreign circumstance and asked to make up eight things that we want to negotiate into a contract. It is like trying to shoot darts in the dark.
What I have learned from this simulation thus far is that I would not want to assume a new position as Superintendent and have to negotiate right away. It would be an extremely difficult process with such limited background knowledge about the district and staff.
What I have learned from this simulation thus far is that I would not want to assume a new position as Superintendent and have to negotiate right away. It would be an extremely difficult process with such limited background knowledge about the district and staff.
Monday, September 14, 2009
9/12/09
The IBB presentation contained a lot of useful information that will be very applicable during negotiations. The theme that I continue to hear is trust and positive relationship are critical. Relationships must be built on that or the chances of having a positive productive negotiations is minimal.
I enjoyed the Easter Island activity. It gave insight as to how the negotiation process occurs. Several of the key components I learned are:
I enjoyed the Easter Island activity. It gave insight as to how the negotiation process occurs. Several of the key components I learned are:
- listening is critical
- must have a direction focus
- leadership is needed and required
- differences of opinion do occur, but must be respected
- agreement does occur because both side do wear down
9/13/09
The bargaining simulation has been a very useful exercise. I have not had any prior negotiation experiences; however, I feel the time, effort, and knowledge gained from this will make me well prepared. After watching the video I tried to watch my body language and the unions. It can be very telling what the other side is thinking before they make a comment.
We are fortunate to have such a wonderful relationship with the union. Their demeanor, language, and thorough explanation make it an enjoyable learning experience.
I also appreciate the time we have taken to review for the exam. It is helpful to know what to expect before we take the test.
We are fortunate to have such a wonderful relationship with the union. Their demeanor, language, and thorough explanation make it an enjoyable learning experience.
I also appreciate the time we have taken to review for the exam. It is helpful to know what to expect before we take the test.
Sunday, September 13, 2009
EDL 623 9/13/09
With the negotiation simulation today I must say thanks to the group 2 union team. It was easy to listen to your 10 items. In your 10 items you had a few items that were easy to agree with as you brought them up. I like that you clarified each item as we went through them. It took the guess work out of it.
I also want to thank you for working with us outside the sessions to establish common salary schedule and teacher demographic worksheet.
As a note taker I agree that it is very difficult to keep involved with the negotiation process and keep notes.
I also want to thank you for working with us outside the sessions to establish common salary schedule and teacher demographic worksheet.
As a note taker I agree that it is very difficult to keep involved with the negotiation process and keep notes.
EDL 623 9/12/09
The IBB information was very beneficial. During the simulation it was interesting to hear the different perception established from what little information given.
When working in our small group we all were able to give our input as to why we picked who we did. As we went through we decided to go with the popular vote method. I don’t know if where we would have gone with 1 nay and that person is out.
As Jerry tallied the yeas and nays the jousting started throughout the room. With the added thumb down elimination and stall, the jousting increased. We even look at different ways to approach a resolution. Many reasons were given, but it would have been nice to hear everyone’s reason for picking who they did. As the process wore on it just wasn’t possible.
I think it would be nice to be able to go through this process in a real ideal situation to see how it is meant to work. In looking at members of our past negotiation teams at school we would need a lengthy training to accomplish a good situation.
With the factory situation it was good to see that sometimes broadened approach can solve related issues at another time. When we came together many of the options were similar and had the other party’s interest in mind.
When working in our small group we all were able to give our input as to why we picked who we did. As we went through we decided to go with the popular vote method. I don’t know if where we would have gone with 1 nay and that person is out.
As Jerry tallied the yeas and nays the jousting started throughout the room. With the added thumb down elimination and stall, the jousting increased. We even look at different ways to approach a resolution. Many reasons were given, but it would have been nice to hear everyone’s reason for picking who they did. As the process wore on it just wasn’t possible.
I think it would be nice to be able to go through this process in a real ideal situation to see how it is meant to work. In looking at members of our past negotiation teams at school we would need a lengthy training to accomplish a good situation.
With the factory situation it was good to see that sometimes broadened approach can solve related issues at another time. When we came together many of the options were similar and had the other party’s interest in mind.
September 13th
Another very useful day! I really like it when I have a class with practical experience rather than having a bunch of busy work built into it. Thanks Dr. Closen! Since most of us have never been directly involved in bargaining before, I think we all are getting very valuable information that will help us later. Dr. Closen has said it, I think both guest speakers said it, and Chapter 7 in the ISB Collective Bargaining text says it: "Bargaining preparation is crucial." However, I think all of us who have no previous experience can testify that it is hard to prepare for something we have never done before. That makes the practical experience of being able to simulate it, before we have to do it for real money and language issues as a superintendent, an invaluable class activity.
Day 2
In my blog I meant to compliment the board in group 2 Your proposal may have taken some time but it was pretty well thought out!! You did a very good job of putting that together during class time and it was petty thorough!
September 12
The simulation was beneficial. I am not a person who likes adversarial or confrontations- don't get me wrong I can stand my ground when necessary, but my preferred way is diplomacy, so I probably would not be a good negotiator. The simulation is good as that probably is how it really is, but as a group some of it made me a little uncomfortable. I feel the union in group 2 did a really nice job of putting together the proposal during class. You had the opportunity to bounce ideas off of each other face to face and you were pretty thorough. While I was participating in this and as Dr. Closen was telling us to look at body language, I started thinking about our meetings with parents during IEPs, conference, and other times. I have often purposely not looked at someone in the room during this time because I was afraid my facial expressions would give away how I was really feeling about things. Not only is that good to think about during negotiations, it is also good to think about in meetings in general. As far as the test goes Wade, just take it and don't worry about it. I figure that there are 125 questions and the score is 200- there must be some sort of weighted grading where maybe one answer gets more credit than another. It is not "hard" you just have to try and use common sense and go with your gut answers. Dr. Closen I am wondering if you are like a cat with nine lives....jumping out of an airplane, walking in a basement full of water...how many of those lives have you used??? Class was very beneficial - I may not be a great negotiator, but I certainly did learn some things about respecting what others in your learning community will fight for and how emotions can get out of hand over sometimes seemingly "silly" items. Oh and Dr. Closen I often go between being too hot and cold....I guess it's just my age - thanks for noticing! ;)
Sunday, Sept. 13
Today's process was an overall good experience. Reflecting on the PP information from the last two days correlates well with our simulation. There is a lot to consider throughout the process.
I agree that the use of the flip cameras was effective. The non-verbal communication is often the important information that is conveyed. We have a flip camera in our District and are in the process of purchasing more for student use.
The negotiation process is a time consuming task. You can see when passionate people come together on two different sides, a variety of skills are needed for the process to be successful. Trust is huge and if it not in place it leads to assumptions and unintentional miscommunication. It is critical to build an environment in which emotions and agendas are left at the door. Furthermore, the "long on listening" strategy may actually be a time saver.
I was feeling the pressure of running 30 minutes past 1:30 today. I can only imagine the pressure when it is 10:30 or 11:30 at night and negotiations are still processing.
Overall, pretty good weekend!
I agree that the use of the flip cameras was effective. The non-verbal communication is often the important information that is conveyed. We have a flip camera in our District and are in the process of purchasing more for student use.
The negotiation process is a time consuming task. You can see when passionate people come together on two different sides, a variety of skills are needed for the process to be successful. Trust is huge and if it not in place it leads to assumptions and unintentional miscommunication. It is critical to build an environment in which emotions and agendas are left at the door. Furthermore, the "long on listening" strategy may actually be a time saver.
I was feeling the pressure of running 30 minutes past 1:30 today. I can only imagine the pressure when it is 10:30 or 11:30 at night and negotiations are still processing.
Overall, pretty good weekend!
623 second day 9-13-09
623 Blog
9-13-09
Once again the simulation has proven to be interesting, fun and educational. I enjoy working on strategy with my team preparing option and counter option. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the negotiation goes and I hope we have enough time to go through the entire process.
Listening to Deb about the test has heightened my anxiety of taking the test and whether I will be prepared. THANKS DEB!!!!!!
9-13-09
Once again the simulation has proven to be interesting, fun and educational. I enjoy working on strategy with my team preparing option and counter option. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the negotiation goes and I hope we have enough time to go through the entire process.
Listening to Deb about the test has heightened my anxiety of taking the test and whether I will be prepared. THANKS DEB!!!!!!
September 13 Weekend 2 Sunday
Presenting to the Board group 1 was enlightening. Seeing the video even without sound gave vital information to the importance of keeping non-verbal cues in check. As note keeper it is important to record the non-verbal as well as verbal to check for understanding or to gain information. Even though we as a team were well prepared for negotiations and our ten points, we got to the table and were confused on an item.
Sunday, 9.13.09
Discussions today focused around the simulations. I found this to be beneficial since the discussions were related to our experiences that we were encountering.
The use of the flipit was also insightful. Seeing yourself and your actions are a great reminder of how others may perceive your non-verbal communication. I am going to investigate these further and consider their uses in our building.
Reviewing and tying in what we are learning together today helped. Discussing the IBB simulations and their benefits and drawbacks was also helpful to hear what others perceptions were.
The use of the flipit was also insightful. Seeing yourself and your actions are a great reminder of how others may perceive your non-verbal communication. I am going to investigate these further and consider their uses in our building.
Reviewing and tying in what we are learning together today helped. Discussing the IBB simulations and their benefits and drawbacks was also helpful to hear what others perceptions were.
9-13
The simulation activity is going very well and is interesting. I think it is a great way for us to learn/practice the process. It will be interesting to see how it plays out and the differences in how the two groups handle the process.
Watching the video of the negotiation sessions with no sound (intentional or not) was a great way to reflect on body language and non-verbals. The point Dr. Closen made about having one member of the group be the "people watcher" was a great idea.
September 12 Weekend #2 Saturday
Jerry had a great deal of information. The scenerio's were good. I found the process interesting as people tried to lobby their points and the strategies used to move the group to a decision. The strategies can also be used when dealing with parent groups or trying to move a staff on to the next topic. The bargaining simulation went well. I am the note keeper and had to develop a system so that I would be able to re-call information when needed.
Weekend 2 - Day 2
I thought the simulation was very helpful. I have a much better understanding of how many little things play a big role in successful negotiations. Before the actual simulation I hadn't thought much about table position strategies, monitoring body language, facial expressions, etc. Other experiences such as pausing before a response or responding quickly may have its advantages or disadvantages. These are all items I will review and work on for my first time of actual negotiations.
9-12
I know I talked about this after the first weekend, but the importance of trust was brought up again today. I think this is so important to me because I have seen and lived with the ramifications of when there is no trust between the parties. It takes years to overcome, even when the players change. So, I just think it is great for trust to be such a focus in the course.
The IBB presentation was very informative. I think the process would work well in certain districts that have the trust built and good relationships built between management and union. Our district utilized IBB five years ago. Unfortunately, I don't think the relationships were built and in place for the process to be successful. In fact, there were many hard feelings following the IBB and the district is still trying to overcome the distrust. We will not be using IBB this time around.
The Easter Island activity was interesting. Frustrating, but interesting. Although unrealistic, I do think the activity demonstrated well how the process would play out.
Sunday 9.13.09
The information from the Sunday class was very productive. Discussing the different phases of the simulation as we are experiencing them is a great way for me to organize the information in my mind! I find the simulation activity an excellent way to apply the information we are reading in the books into practice.
I like the flip video. I am going to look into getting one of those for my building. I wonder how teachers would feel if I used it during a walk-through.....
On a side note, I also enjoyed the conversation about the superintendency test.
I like the flip video. I am going to look into getting one of those for my building. I wonder how teachers would feel if I used it during a walk-through.....
On a side note, I also enjoyed the conversation about the superintendency test.
Weekend 2 - Day 1
I enjoyed the scenerios used with the IBB. I can see where posing a neutral question would be successful when bargaining. After using the scenerios I was also made aware of the frustration possibilities in gaining concensus and the difficulty getting everyone on the same page. I thought Jerry did a good job and presented a lot of good information. He was very patient in facilitating our activities.
Second Weekend, Day 2
The simulation process today was a great experience. Presenting proposals to the board and listening for reactions gave insight into what they were thinking. The chess game of anticipating the items that would be returned, preparing for a response, and prioritizing what is really important was worthwhile. I can see how the game can be played and how looking ahead and doing your homework is critical.
Watching the video, even without sound, was a good exercise to review the nonverbals we had given. The body language can tell a great deal about which items are "sacred cows" and which may have some wiggle room. Having a designated person to observe body language in negotiations and record reactions and the topic that was currently being discussed is a great suggestion.
Watching the video, even without sound, was a good exercise to review the nonverbals we had given. The body language can tell a great deal about which items are "sacred cows" and which may have some wiggle room. Having a designated person to observe body language in negotiations and record reactions and the topic that was currently being discussed is a great suggestion.
September 12th
I really enjoyed the time spent working on the scenario and setting the ground rules. I look forward to seeing how the rest of the process goes with our two groups, especially when we ask for the farm!
Jerry was very knowledgeable. The information and scenarios he had us go through were very beneficial and frustrating at the same time. I can see how IBB could work, but it is essential that you have the right players at the table. If there are any egos, trouble is sure to follow. Maybe the extra time that I perceive this takes would pay off in the long run.
Jerry was very knowledgeable. The information and scenarios he had us go through were very beneficial and frustrating at the same time. I can see how IBB could work, but it is essential that you have the right players at the table. If there are any egos, trouble is sure to follow. Maybe the extra time that I perceive this takes would pay off in the long run.
Saturday, September 12, 2009
September 12th
A very interesting class today. Even though I thought our group was fairly well prepared to choose the items we wanted to negotiate, once we started the discussion and looked at different angles of various articles, the process was much longer than expected. When you have three people from three different districts bringing the experiences and perspectives from those districts, it is amazing how many flaws you can find in a contract. The same goes for the Brave New World exercise with Jerry in the afternoon. Judging from the many opinions and deep thinking that went into who we would pick for survivors, Interest Based Bargaining could create quite an interesting format for collective bargaining. Our superintendent wants our district to go to IBB next year after several very controversial and heated bargaining sessions this past spring. I have never been involved in collective bargaining at our school on either side, but if we go to IBB I would love to watch the process unfold.
To Deb
I am so relieved to hear you say the test was hell. I had a couple of people say it was a breeze. I was beginning to feel stupid. The questions were long and complicated (sometimes) and after a few, I started to panic thinking to myself, I can't concentrate for 125 questions like this. I would say almost anyone who is a principal has a hard time sitting still for that long concentrating on one thing! The questions weren't hard and you are right -I don't think WIU or any institution could possible prepare you for that test. There were always two possible right and two pretty much wrong - but were you guessing the same one the testing company thought was the correct answer. I left that test not having a clue how I did. I dreaded the approaching deadline for the results and can say I was never more relieved than to get a pass. I was pretty sure I could possibly be one of the first who didn't pass it! The scary thing...there is no way to study for it or even figure out where you might have been wrong.
September 12, Weekend #2
I thought today was very interesting and worthwhile. The morning was a challenge. I see the bargaining process as a frame of mind. It took a while to begin to feel comfortable with how things may work. I really like the simulation activity because it is putting us in the actual roles. It will be good if we can keep things as authentic as possible. Although I am not completely comfortable with my role, I can see the value of the experience. I think the existing contract is messy. Hopefully, the effort of both sides will be able to lead to a product that better meets the needs of all involved. Will we be better off to stick with a traditional approach or attempt to work in concepts of IBB?
The afternoon was interesting as well. The activities were well suited to match the negotiation process. Two points:
We were very protective of who should or should not have been sent to Easter Island. The process used did a nice job of trying to structure the IBB nature of negotiating and bringing things back to our goal/our standards. Lesson well learned.
Secondly, the reality of our final situation seemed ironic. From my experience, the schools are the ones to bend over backwards to meet the needs of the community. I am thinking that if this District can not collaborate with the business community more than what was explained, are they not setting themselves up? If I was a taxpayer, I don't know if I would be too willing to support a levy or a bond issue if I sense the inflexibility of the District.
The afternoon was interesting as well. The activities were well suited to match the negotiation process. Two points:
We were very protective of who should or should not have been sent to Easter Island. The process used did a nice job of trying to structure the IBB nature of negotiating and bringing things back to our goal/our standards. Lesson well learned.
Secondly, the reality of our final situation seemed ironic. From my experience, the schools are the ones to bend over backwards to meet the needs of the community. I am thinking that if this District can not collaborate with the business community more than what was explained, are they not setting themselves up? If I was a taxpayer, I don't know if I would be too willing to support a levy or a bond issue if I sense the inflexibility of the District.
Second Weekend Day 1
The simulation of the collective bargaining activity is very interesting. It is nice that everyone is taking the exercise seriously. We have started out well and it is interesting being on the "Union" side. I have spent a few years on the administrative side and I have to admit it is a bit difficult to switch thinking back to the teacher's way of thinking. This exercise is quite valuable and I appreciate the time we are spending on this activity.
On a side note, the superintedent exam was hell and I am glad I am finished with it. 125 questions of "what ifs" got a little confusing about question # 89. Today I am not sure how well WIU prepared me for the exam, but I am sure after a good night's sleep and the clarity of daylight I will feel better!
On a side note, the superintedent exam was hell and I am glad I am finished with it. 125 questions of "what ifs" got a little confusing about question # 89. Today I am not sure how well WIU prepared me for the exam, but I am sure after a good night's sleep and the clarity of daylight I will feel better!
September 12
Today was very interesting. The simulations at the end of the day were somewhat stressful. It would be easy to see how emotions could become carried away in negotiations where one's livelihood depends on the outcomes. Ours was only a silly simulation about having "the power" to actually pick who would survive going to a new island. I chose not to pick the army medic with nightmares and post traumatic shock syndrome and wow - !! Thanks Chad for going along the second pick through - I caved with a neutral decision!! Even though the simulation was ridiculous decision making, issues can become emotional. I can see some of the people in my district who are emotional and passionate about their union and have to respect that with their personalities. I have a tendency to be more easy going and have a hard time understanding that passion! It was actually fun being the one to stand against the group! Negotiation is something that we probably all need experience with as superintendents. I now wish I would have been more involved on our negotiations this past spring and summer. The administrative team was not included - only our business manager. The process of working through problems and solving the issues is a much better way to make progress.
Saturday, September 12
It will be interesting to see how the collective bargaining simulation plays out.
Our special speaker did a nice job of explaining the process of Interest Based Bargaining (IBB) and the activities helped reinforce the main ideas and keep us involved. IBB has qualities worth considering. The process seems more people friendly than traditional negotiations. Because school boards and teacher unions are “married” to each other, IBB seems like a good option. Sharing in an open discussion sounds more professional than the traditional notion of making demands to identify issues. The collaborative nature of IBB is also appealing. The process seems much less combative. Training for all involved in the negotiations process and an experienced and neutral facilitator would be a must.
On the other hand, the process could be very lengthy if there are a lot of topics or issues that both sides want to negotiate. Coming to consensus could take forever.
Our special speaker did a nice job of explaining the process of Interest Based Bargaining (IBB) and the activities helped reinforce the main ideas and keep us involved. IBB has qualities worth considering. The process seems more people friendly than traditional negotiations. Because school boards and teacher unions are “married” to each other, IBB seems like a good option. Sharing in an open discussion sounds more professional than the traditional notion of making demands to identify issues. The collaborative nature of IBB is also appealing. The process seems much less combative. Training for all involved in the negotiations process and an experienced and neutral facilitator would be a must.
On the other hand, the process could be very lengthy if there are a lot of topics or issues that both sides want to negotiate. Coming to consensus could take forever.
Second weekend Day One 9-12-09
Blog
623
9-12-09
The simulation process that we did in the morning continues to be very interesting and educational. The strategy and meeting with the other team to discuss ground rules and work on the items for negotiation has been very beneficial to me.
Jerry Meehan – Interest Based Bargaining
Jerry did a nice job of explain IBB and the steps (process) that is used by both parties. The class discussion and simulation I felt was very worthwhile. It was interesting to see how the class negotiate on who was sent on to Easter Island and who had to stayed behind. The discussion, voting and negotiation process was on target for what lies ahead of us as Superintendents, with IBB or the traditional process
This process made sense to me and seemed like a great way to negotiate, not sure how the union/teacher’s in my district would perceive this process after being on strike last negotiation.
623
9-12-09
The simulation process that we did in the morning continues to be very interesting and educational. The strategy and meeting with the other team to discuss ground rules and work on the items for negotiation has been very beneficial to me.
Jerry Meehan – Interest Based Bargaining
Jerry did a nice job of explain IBB and the steps (process) that is used by both parties. The class discussion and simulation I felt was very worthwhile. It was interesting to see how the class negotiate on who was sent on to Easter Island and who had to stayed behind. The discussion, voting and negotiation process was on target for what lies ahead of us as Superintendents, with IBB or the traditional process
This process made sense to me and seemed like a great way to negotiate, not sure how the union/teacher’s in my district would perceive this process after being on strike last negotiation.
SEcond Weekend, Day 1
The IBB "Brave New World" simulation activity was fascinating. We all had different opinions about the individuals based on our own background prejudices that affected the overall consensus. I was surprised how long we were left to our own to debate and eliminate choices as the process went along. It almost appeared to be too unstructured to really be productive. In the end, we were able to make a list but included several that were undesirable to many. While everyone says that they "could live with the decision", it didn't leave people feeling great about the final decision but instead being okay with most of it. The process lends itself to consensus building in a number of situations outside of collective bargaining.
Monday, September 7, 2009
Sunday, August 30, 2009
Thursday, August 27, 2009
Tuesday, August 25, 2009
To Sarah Leonard
Hi Sarah, I emailed you the Ground Rules but it came back twice. I looked at Moline schools and added org after the address you gave me. I hope you got it. thanks Joan
Monday, August 24, 2009
Day 2
For some reason I am having a heck of a time with this. I lost my draft for a moment!! Class on Sunday was interesting. Jay was the attorney on Canton's board. The contract was settled pretty quickly. I learned the difference between an arbitrator and mediator. I also believe that building good relationship is essential for being a superintendent or principal. That is really what it is all about - getting people to do their best. The 3 factors to consider was another important issue brought up. To be honest Dr. Closen, I am a little worried about the final test!!! I would rather do a project or paper any day than take a test!! I enjoyed working with my "union" team. It is interesting the game that is played between the two sides!! I also liked your quote,It is better to listen and have someone think you’re a fool then to open your mouth and let them know you’re a fool." I think those are words to live by, but I think they were said on Saturday!!
Day 1 of class
Collective Bargaining is something in which I have never participated. I did a powerpoint on the key points of being on the team for the board. I am still a little confused about some of the aspects, but will continue to listen and learn. Some of the terminology is still a little unclear about what you have a "duty" to bargain and what can be bargained. Our board gave away teachers doing bus duty a few years ago. Apparently when that was done, it was to stop the junior high principal from making teachers stay after students left and watch kids who had not boarded buses yet. Instead of addressing that, the teaches have a no bus duty clause in the contract. I have asked for this to be modified or even have what constitutes bus duty clarified but to no avail. They say "walking" their students out to the buses is bus duty!! It makes it hard to get help with this dangerous time of the day. I have never understood really what the difference is between Interest Based Bargaining and Traditional Bargaining, so doing the paper will certainly give me some insight! I wonder if anyone else caught the unfair labor practices violation was an acronym - TIPS You cannot threaten, intimidate, promise or surveillance? It was an interesting class and I learned a great deal.
Reflection Day #2
GO UNION TEAM #1. I enjoyed the group work of setting the ground rules. Already the bargaining begins with the word choices involved in the setting of the ground rules.
I am thinking about all the steps that it took for our support personnel to walk out mid year and all the steps that it took to actually strike. I wish that I could have been part of the process eight years ago when it happened and how difficult it was on both sides. The time that it takes to negotiate, mediate then go to an arbitrator, is it worth it in the end?
Jake gave great examples of doing your homework before starting negotiations and the impact that a story can have. Also, listening to the other sides story can give you insight as to what the other side of the table is proposing.
I am thinking about all the steps that it took for our support personnel to walk out mid year and all the steps that it took to actually strike. I wish that I could have been part of the process eight years ago when it happened and how difficult it was on both sides. The time that it takes to negotiate, mediate then go to an arbitrator, is it worth it in the end?
Jake gave great examples of doing your homework before starting negotiations and the impact that a story can have. Also, listening to the other sides story can give you insight as to what the other side of the table is proposing.
Day I-Reflection
I have no experience with collective bargaining. It is very clear that relationships are very important as discussed in class as well as in the the first section of Colosi. It is very clear that Dr. Closen has a great deal of experience in this area and shares his expertise.
I have thought about including a principal on the negotiating team or not. Should the site based manager be involved in negotiations? It all goes back to relationship with staff, and building trust. That is built from day one on the job as an administrator. In our large district it is not done. I like the idea of Principal's being consulted to see how it effects their buildings.
I am still unclear on the matter of un-employment for substitutes and this is an area that I am going to further investigate.
I have thought about including a principal on the negotiating team or not. Should the site based manager be involved in negotiations? It all goes back to relationship with staff, and building trust. That is built from day one on the job as an administrator. In our large district it is not done. I like the idea of Principal's being consulted to see how it effects their buildings.
I am still unclear on the matter of un-employment for substitutes and this is an area that I am going to further investigate.
Day 2
Excellent discussion and explanation of mediation and arbitration. I have a much better understanding of the difference between the two in the realm of collective bargaining. The attorney presentation was very interesting and informative. He provided a great deal of information and tools that will be helpful when preparing for negotiations. The first weekend, overall, provided a very good foundation for the process and the superintendents role. I thought the notions of holding true to your word and actually implementing what you are bargain were extremely important. In my experience, this has not always happened and as such has caused some very hard feelings.
Day 1
It was very refreshing to hear the emphasis and importance of trust building with staff, community and the board. We talked about the notion of rubber stamping and how that can be both good and bad. It is good in that the board trusts the supt and administration, however, it can cause doubt and lack of trust with the community and staff if the decisions being made are not transparent. I also greatly appreciated your stance on being ethical. It was very refreshing. I am looking forward to the simulation, I think it will be a great exercise.
Day #1
I really enjoyed sitting down and discussing the Ground Rules. Due to my lack of experience in this area I had not thought of the fact that these are so critical to the negotiation process. Working with the other team members gave me another perspective of their experiences and stories. Like in any school district setting the expectations is critical to success.
Day #1
I have no prior experience at the table with collective bargaining and negotiations so this has been a very interesting day. With personnel salaries running close to 80%, negotiations are critical to the district finances. The stories that are being related are very applicable to this class and help us think through various issues that may arise. I am looking forward to the simulation activity and the knowledge learned as a result of the activity.
Day #2
One of the key aspects that was continually stressed throughout the weekend was developing positive relationships with the staff. If a relationship exists where honesty and truthfulness exists, then the negotiation process will go much smoother. Being candid about the district finances is critical so the other side can understand why a 6% raise is out of the question. Handouts must also be utilized to give a complete picture.
Sunday, August 23, 2009
Reflection on Day 2
I thought today's class was another productive one. The format of Dr. Closen's is obviously geared toward giving us practical information and practice as opposed to the busy work we get in some classes, and I appreciate that. Having Jay in class was invaluable. His opening was very interesting: "Bargaining is an opportunity to improve labor relations." That is pretty profound and we should all remember that. Perhaps, though, it is easier said than done. He gave us a lot of "nuts and bolts" that were great, but more importantly, just as Colosi in the text and Dr. Closen also say, Jay emphasized developing trust and relationships. That should be a natural fit for all of us since that is the same beginning toward being an effective teacher in the classroom. Along that line, his statement that we only get one chance to create a reputation, is so true. I also liked his reasoning that you shouldn't just give the union your positions, but also rationalize them. Finally, in regards to the importance of developing relationships and trust, that should be carried over to the table and we should never lose our cool with the union. As he said, "Don't talk 'at' each other, talk 'with' each other."
Some financial elements that were discussed stuck out as extra important. Jay mentioned that in regards to health insurance, it is imperative that the employees have a stake in the cost and you need to keep a mechanism in your arsenal to control costs. With that and all financial matters, what Dr. Closen said ("Always underestimate revenues and overestimate expenditures.") is a good common sense rule to live by.
Some financial elements that were discussed stuck out as extra important. Jay mentioned that in regards to health insurance, it is imperative that the employees have a stake in the cost and you need to keep a mechanism in your arsenal to control costs. With that and all financial matters, what Dr. Closen said ("Always underestimate revenues and overestimate expenditures.") is a good common sense rule to live by.
Day 2 - Reflection
One of the reflections that really caught my attention today was Jay reminding us about the little give and takes in negotiations. The example he brought up was teachers getting payed for bus duty while on contract time.
It is true teachers should not double dip and the board was correct that they shouldn't be payed but in the big financial picture is was equivalent of about .1% of the overall budget. His reminder was to understand the big picture.
One of his other reminders included while going through the negotiation cycle understand its effect on future negotiations.
It is true teachers should not double dip and the board was correct that they shouldn't be payed but in the big financial picture is was equivalent of about .1% of the overall budget. His reminder was to understand the big picture.
One of his other reminders included while going through the negotiation cycle understand its effect on future negotiations.
August 23, Session #2
Jay Greening's presentation was helpful when looking at the big picture of negotiations. I picked up on three elements. 1.) Building relationships with the people at the table prior to negotiations is essential. 2.) The bargaining process should be an opportunity to improve employee relations. 3.) Successful negotiations are based on what happens prior to the process even beginning.
He provided many tips to follow to enhance the negotiations process. As I left for the day, I guess what was circling in my head was how beneficial it would be to work with him as you head into your first few negotiation processes and beyond. His handouts seemed as though they would really assist in the process. You really have to have a sound understanding of what the District can afford yet at the same time aim for having both parties feeling like they have left the table with more than they expected. That takes skill!
He provided many tips to follow to enhance the negotiations process. As I left for the day, I guess what was circling in my head was how beneficial it would be to work with him as you head into your first few negotiation processes and beyond. His handouts seemed as though they would really assist in the process. You really have to have a sound understanding of what the District can afford yet at the same time aim for having both parties feeling like they have left the table with more than they expected. That takes skill!
EDL 623 8/23/09
A couple of themes that came out today were a strong relationship and being well prepared.
A relationship that has been built from honesty and being an advocate for the staff develops a trust that can only help. When the staff has other experiences of you working for the good of all it can lesson the anxiety in negotiations.
When going into a negotiation session being well prepared with the financial aspect is a must. With the packet given and the spreadsheet examples it becomes more of an object situation. The short detailed information sheets should help reduce distractions from the facts.
The information given today will be helpful in the future.
A relationship that has been built from honesty and being an advocate for the staff develops a trust that can only help. When the staff has other experiences of you working for the good of all it can lesson the anxiety in negotiations.
When going into a negotiation session being well prepared with the financial aspect is a must. With the packet given and the spreadsheet examples it becomes more of an object situation. The short detailed information sheets should help reduce distractions from the facts.
The information given today will be helpful in the future.
Day #2
The quote of the day that I will try to remember is "Don't let the small things get into the way of a no vote." By seeing the big picture the superintendent needs to communicate to the board issues that may be of little importance, such as, bus duty only costs the district .o15% of the total budget. Redirecting them is critical to our job - we must always do what is best for kids.
Day 2 Class Reflection
Jay Greening’s practitioner approach and handout were excellent. The keys that I came away with included building and maintaining relationships as well as being prepared. As in anything, relationships are crucial to success. In a likewise manner, being prepared can help speed up the process and give you objective information to share during the negotiation process. Being as objective as possible is important to keep personalities out of the mix.
Seeing the tools of the District Financial Analysis, Projections, and comparisons helps cement my learning that occurred in Finance. It has tied the two together even more so than yesterday’s conversations.
Seeing the tools of the District Financial Analysis, Projections, and comparisons helps cement my learning that occurred in Finance. It has tied the two together even more so than yesterday’s conversations.
Day #2
Jay did an outstanding job of stressing the importance of "doing homework" prior to the negotiations. By explaining the critical details, both sides will have an understanding of where each is coming from. By truly listening to the other side, one will know what the other really wants. By being honest and forthcoming a successful negotiation can occur.
Day 2, EDL 623
Getting together with our group to set the ground rules was an excellent use of time. This simulation will be a great activity for those of us that have only been casual observers of the process. The handout we received from Jay Greening will come in handy for that first time we engage in negotiations as a superintendent.
Coming to the table prepared with all the financial information seems pretty basic - however, some folks must not do it or he wouldn't have stressed it so much!!! Getting the language items done first, which is what Freeport did during their recent negotiations, really did create an air of trust and collaboration.
I believe the advice to make sure relationships are better than when you started the process is the best notion he shared. The key to running a school district, a building, or a business is all about the relationships.
Coming to the table prepared with all the financial information seems pretty basic - however, some folks must not do it or he wouldn't have stressed it so much!!! Getting the language items done first, which is what Freeport did during their recent negotiations, really did create an air of trust and collaboration.
I believe the advice to make sure relationships are better than when you started the process is the best notion he shared. The key to running a school district, a building, or a business is all about the relationships.
8/23
The special speaker shared a lot of useful information and experience. I agree that building relationships with the union/employees is a year round process and that trust is a major factor. The “trust” factor made a difference in the outcome of our negotiations this past spring. The negotiation plan that Jay shared will help me organize prior to beginning the negotiation process next time. This gave me several tools to gather objective facts to use to plan negotiations. These tools take the guesswork out of the process and will allow me to negotiate intelligently using facts.
Day 2 Thoughts
Meeting with our negotiating team today was enjoyable and worthwhile. It gave insight into the process and gave an opportunity to mentally prepare for the next step and representing a side or philosophy with which I normally would not generally share. I look forward to the simulation to gain some experience in the collective bargaining process even in a "pretend" format.
The speaker was very informative. I like the handouts and am anxious to share these with the superintendent in my district. I believe the agreement that was just settled in Galesburg is only a one year deal so we should be starting the preparation process soon and begin the whole thing over again in the coming months. I am hopeful that I will be able to be involved in the contract talks this time around.
The speaker was very informative. I like the handouts and am anxious to share these with the superintendent in my district. I believe the agreement that was just settled in Galesburg is only a one year deal so we should be starting the preparation process soon and begin the whole thing over again in the coming months. I am hopeful that I will be able to be involved in the contract talks this time around.
2nd day 623
623
8-23-09
The activity of setting ground rules was one of the better activities that I have been involved with in the EDL program and am looking forward to the rest of the simulation of negotiation.
Jay Greening presentation was very interesting and helpful. The handout will be taken back and shared with the superintendent and hopefully used as our guideline to negotiate this year. The information that was shared on; (giving in on items that are not a big issue especially language items) made sense to me. I would like more information on the interest based bargaining process.
8-23-09
The activity of setting ground rules was one of the better activities that I have been involved with in the EDL program and am looking forward to the rest of the simulation of negotiation.
Jay Greening presentation was very interesting and helpful. The handout will be taken back and shared with the superintendent and hopefully used as our guideline to negotiate this year. The information that was shared on; (giving in on items that are not a big issue especially language items) made sense to me. I would like more information on the interest based bargaining process.
Refection day one
Reflection Day One
It’s been a little over ten years since I negotiated a contract. So it was nice to refresh some of the terms, strategy and tricks that go along with negotiations. We are in the last year of our contract so we will begin negotiations in the spring. The last negotiation we had a three day strike before it was settled and since it was settled we have had four grievances filed against the administration. I have been asked to sit in on negotiation team so I need to refresh the do’s and don’ts on the procedures to prepare for the union thug.
It’s been a little over ten years since I negotiated a contract. So it was nice to refresh some of the terms, strategy and tricks that go along with negotiations. We are in the last year of our contract so we will begin negotiations in the spring. The last negotiation we had a three day strike before it was settled and since it was settled we have had four grievances filed against the administration. I have been asked to sit in on negotiation team so I need to refresh the do’s and don’ts on the procedures to prepare for the union thug.
EDL 623 8/22/09
EDL 623 Reflection 8/22/09
A helpful piece of information for me is the mediator and arbitrator’s main goal is to have a contract and not what who gets what. I thought they at least kept in mind the final $ for the district so as not to go in the red.
The tax information will be good for helping develop the budget.
It was interesting that other areas of the start as well have the swing to a more “I” approach from the union instead of what is best for the students as a main focus. This has increased in our parents and students as well.
A helpful piece of information for me is the mediator and arbitrator’s main goal is to have a contract and not what who gets what. I thought they at least kept in mind the final $ for the district so as not to go in the red.
The tax information will be good for helping develop the budget.
It was interesting that other areas of the start as well have the swing to a more “I” approach from the union instead of what is best for the students as a main focus. This has increased in our parents and students as well.
Saturday, August 22, 2009
What a Day!
We talked about so much in one day, it was really an eye opener and a great learning experience for someone like me who has never been involved in negotiations. A couple of things that really stuck out for me were things that Dr. Closen mentioned in the morning session. The first was that collective bargaining is an area that could cause all of us as potential superintendents to lose our jobs. The second was a wise, common sense statement that we should always ask our principals how bargaining proposals will effect their buildings. Something that you would hope we would all have enough sense to do, but if not mentioned in class by the instructor, something that some of us (I'll put myself in the lead as the most likely) may not have done in the future. That was an aha moment for me.
Another thing Dr. Closen mentioned was using Excel spreadsheets to do projections. I am a novice at Excel, knowing just enough to be dangerous. Thus, becoming efficient in this area will be a future goal for me.
I thought it was a very productive day, but not quite as exciting as my evening. Sorry, Dr. Closen! I just got home from a night of watching MMA fighting as a former student of mine won the final fight of his short career. He just started training a couple of years ago and has only had five fights. However, he is 36 and has a wife and four kids, so he decided to quit while he is still healthy. Why is this on my blog? Because I figured even in the crudest of sports there still has to be some negotiations for the fights before they take place. Once in the ring, no negotiating!
Day 1 Class Reflection
The reminder of the Corporate Personal Property Replacement Tax and its impact was an aha moment. It really tied in the importance of finance and the negotiation process. The impact of the budget, future projections including students in seats, contract language, etc. are areas that need to be remembered throughout the negotiations process.
As I enter into the first negotiations as a superintendent, I will remember that the future of negotiations is impacted greatly each time you go through the process with how the process is handled and the relationships that you develop. You always reap what you sow!
Day 1 - Reflection Blog
One of the interesting thoughts from today included the conversation regarding the role of a mediator. I always thought their role was to decide which bargaining team was bringing the fairest contract to the table and not just to get the contract settled regardless of who benefited.
It was good to hear some of the tricks that both a mediator and union rep. may try at negotiation time.
We also reviewed the ground rules for bargaining. One of the items on the list were concepts I never would have thought of at this point in my career (caucus condition).
It was good to hear some of the tricks that both a mediator and union rep. may try at negotiation time.
We also reviewed the ground rules for bargaining. One of the items on the list were concepts I never would have thought of at this point in my career (caucus condition).
Saturday, Aug. 22 Class #1
I found that our topics today were relevant for Iowa or Illinois. The skill of building trust and relationships with your board and union are important in no matter what state you are a superindentent in. Knowing our contract as building principals is very important, it seems as though we often know it better than the teachers. Coming to the table with good faith efforts is important. It seems you hear about situations when hidden agendas drive the contract. To me that is pretty frustrating. My superintendent once said that negotiations is a time when the union forgets about the best interest of kids. It is all about the raise. For superintendents I imagine it comes down to managing the $$ that you have to work with. Negotiations really can impact the budget for years to come. Another interesting point from this afternoon that sticks with me is the concept of remembering what you get on the final year of a three year contract. I believe and have experienced this to be very true. It may be a good strategy to try...keep that in mind Union #1!
As a teacher, I was part of the negotiating team for a few years. That was 10 years ago. Since then, I have not been a part of it on either side. This class should provide a good experience to look at things from both sides and discover some of the strategies that superintendents can use during the negotiating process.
As a teacher, I was part of the negotiating team for a few years. That was 10 years ago. Since then, I have not been a part of it on either side. This class should provide a good experience to look at things from both sides and discover some of the strategies that superintendents can use during the negotiating process.
8/22
We negotiated a new three year contract this past spring. I experienced much of what was discussed today. We did not have a meeting where ground rules were set between the union and the administration/board. The process of negotiations is spelled out in the contract, but things like the manner in which proposals are presented, method for recording, and the role of each participant were not discussed. These ground rules will definitely be spelled out next time.
Saturday class #1
Collective bargaining and negotiations are one of the most important skills/requirements for a superintendent, in my opinion, with budgets running at 70% personnel costs. I believe negotiation is a skill that can be learned, and not one I am well versed in. I found the anecdotal snippets to be very interesting and informative.
I have to admit I got a bit bogged down in the afternoon with the lecture format and found it a bit difficult to concentrate. It is also hard to discuss what I would do during negotiations when I have hardly had an experience with the format. I think I would have really been lost in most of the discussions today if I had not had that limited experience this past spring with the process.
I think the simulation activity will be very valuable and I look forward to learning more negotiation skills.
I guess we should have asked the ending time this morning so it was such a surprise!! :)
I have to admit I got a bit bogged down in the afternoon with the lecture format and found it a bit difficult to concentrate. It is also hard to discuss what I would do during negotiations when I have hardly had an experience with the format. I think I would have really been lost in most of the discussions today if I had not had that limited experience this past spring with the process.
I think the simulation activity will be very valuable and I look forward to learning more negotiation skills.
I guess we should have asked the ending time this morning so it was such a surprise!! :)
Day 1 Thoughts
The discussion of the laws establishing the NLRA was interesting. It brought some clarity to their creation. I found the discussion of the different "shop" options interesting. The obvious differences between the two states is fascinating. It would make sense that there is a stronger "union feel" in Illinois due to the industrial history of the state. The enormous bank of family farms, agriculture and the rural culture in Iowa would explain the maintenance of Right to Work laws that still exist.
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